Supporters` Council Meeting 22 Nov 2018

Venue: The Purvis Suite, East End Park
Chair: John Russell
Table Hosts: Ross McArthur, Kip McBay, Ian Hunter, David McMorrine, Billy Braisby, Bob Garmory, Donald Adamson, William Braisby, Karyn Forrester, Gordon Milne

Introduction

John Russell welcomed supporters to the meeting and explained that the arrangement was different from previous meetings as the emphasis was to be on fans speaking directly to Board members about what concerned them. There were five tables (Football Matters, Governance & Vision, Finance, Matchday Experience, Supporter Involvement) each hosted by members of the DAFC or PU(CIC) Boards, and everyone attending would have the opportunity during the evening to visit each table.

Chairman, Ross McArthur gave a brief summary of events since the last Supporters’ Council meeting in May.

For the third consecutive year DAFC Ltd had made a small profit despite very challenging circumstances, and he paid tribute to David McMorrine for his careful management of the club’s finances. Ross stressed that the achievement was due to everyone pulling in the same direction, and that without the contribution from the Centenary Club Lifeline none of this would have been possible.

During the close season there had been 17 players out of contract, resulting in a massive turnover of staff. Despite being offered contracts, 4 had moved to other clubs (for substantially more money than DAFC was offering), 3 had returned to their parent clubs and 8 new players had joined the 1st team squad, as well the establishment of a new reserve team squad. Ross noted that this year there had been a significant increase in agents’ fees.

Ross acknowledged that player turnover was a challenge (as well as absorbing a lot of management resource to administer). With smaller leagues meaning a greater chance of promotion or relegation clubs can be unwilling to offer long term contracts, but also many players were themselves reluctant to sign contracts for more than one season as they aspired to better themselves.

Stevie Crawford had come into the football management team to replace John Potter, who had gone to Sunderland with the best wishes of DAFC for his future career. Kenny Murray had left the physio post and thanks were due for his service to DAFC – he had been replaced by John Porteous and Stuart Phin.

Michael Mlotkiewicz had left his General Manager post, and his Media/PR duties had been assumed by Craig Brown, with the Directors taking on other aspects of the GM role.

Season ticket sales for 2018/19 had increased in number, but the income was less due to the greater number of concessions. Unfortunately, there has been some abuse of the free U12 season ticket scheme, and arrangements are being put in place to track and stop this.

Matchday sales, hospitality income and retail sales are currently all below expectations and budget, which is slightly concerning. There could be several reasons for this, including pressures on household and commercial budgets, and disappointing home results.

Onfield, results in the Betfred Cup had been positive, and the financial returns were ahead of budget, the Irn Bru Cup less so. The Borehamwood trip had made a financial loss, but the Board was philosophical about this as it had clearly caught the imagination of many Pars fans.

Ross noted that we had been hit with a horrendous run of similar injuries requiring operations. By December this will amount to 9 players in total (plus Aidan Kenna requiring an operation before he could join us) compared with 1-2 in previous seasons), resulting in only six of the 1st team squad being available for every game this season so far. It was suspected that this might be due to the very hot summer which caused the surface at McKane Park to be like concrete, as there was no way of watering the surface. That coupled to moving to the artificial surface at Kelty in September, as McKane Park then became very wet.

The Championship was the most competitive for years, with no truly outstanding team, but everyone at the club acknowledged that League results had been very disappointing, particularly at home with only 2 goals scored and 10 against. The statistics showed that overall Dunfermline had hugely exceeded the opposition in both shots and corners but results clearly needed to improve soon – everyone needs to stick together and work to bring this about.

DISCUSSIONS THEN TOOK PLACE AT INDIVIDUAL TABLES, WITH SUPPORTERS VISITING EACH TABLE IN TURN. SOME QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS HAVE BEEN AMALGAMATED WHERE THEY COVER SIMILAR GROUND.
 
Football Matters (Hosts: Ross McArthur & Kip McBay)

Q1 Why is the manager’s slow to use substitutions? It seems obvious from the stands that players are tiring and need to be replaced.
A1 This is not always an exact science. Due to the injury situation, sometimes players are on the bench who are themselves not fully fit. Likewise, the manager was criticised for substituting Kallum Higginbotham against Falkirk, but he had just returned from injury and was only ever going to get 60 to 70 minutes, so you are damned if you do, or damned if you don’t.

Q2 When opposition teams are clearly playing for time (e.g. to protect a lead) can the ballboys not use the “hot ball” system to recycle the ball quickly?
A2 It is not allowed – the matchball must be used (unless the referee decides otherwise, e.g. burstball.)

Q3 Why are the strikers not “striking”? If we have good players, what is wrong?
A3 Difficult to answer – it is undoubtedly to do with confidence and belief. If we were not creating, chances you would be more concerned. The law of averages should eventually resolve this, since we have had 36 more shots and 26 more corners than the opposition. Perhaps there is a wish to take an extra touch to make absolutely sure, but that confidence will return when the shots go in.

Q4 Why did the manager release Jason Talbot?

A4 It is the manager’s call. He wanted the option to play with a wing-back formation and considered that he could get a more adaptable player to do this, particularly going forward. Jason was a great servant to the club and a fantastic professional, and we wish him well.
Q5 Is player morale affected by 1-0 defeats against run of play (and similar results)?
A5 Morale is still good, and the BoD do not believe this is an issue. As long as chances are being created, they will (eventually) be scored. There is no suggestion at all that “the manager has lost the dressing room”.

Q6 Is the manager’s position secure? Will he be here in 5 years? Has he not been here too long already?
A6 The manager continues to have our backing, and I know how hard he works to try and improve things. He knows himself that results need to improve. The nature of football management makes it highly unlikely that Allan Johnston will be here in 5 years, but he has the backing of the Board.

Q7 Is the Board’s relationship with the manager too close to make an objective decision about his performance? Will they be able at some point to say “enough is enough”? Might there not be someone available who could do a better job?
A7 The Chairman and Board have a duty and responsibility to make tough decisions and they will do so if and when they consider it necessary.  Changing a manager mid-season is always a risk and the Board is not aware of anyone currently available who (in their opinion) would do a better job. It is easy to be critical and lack objectivity if you don’t know all the facts.

Q8 Does the Board realise that many fans are becoming disillusioned, not just with results but with the unexciting style of play and apparent lack of tactical awareness? There are too many bad runs, the team seems too easily beaten and there is no clear identity. Worse, fans are becoming resigned to the lack of success and many just don’t care anymore.

A8 That is disappointing to hear if fans don’t care anymore, and the Board and the management team recognise that results have got to improve. We would never take the support we receive from the fan base for granted. There are lots of contributory factors to the indifferent results (turnover of players, injuries, clubs with bigger budgets, individual errors, etc) but everyone, including the manager and the players, knows that we need to start winning matches.

Q9 What is the effect of parachute payments?

A9 The Scottish Championship has become similar to that in England, where even comparatively bigger clubs struggle to be promoted due in part to the parachute payments to relegated clubs e.g. Partick Thistle benefited by £500k from a parachute payment, plus a further £380k from Celtic’s progress in Europe.

Q10 Is there medical insurance in place to cover player injuries?

A10 No, the premiums would be excessive. DAFC have now had to pay over £40k in medical fees for operations, rehabilitation etc.

Q11 What is the cost of getting players on loan?

A11 It varies with each individual contract. In some cases, it is significant, where the players’ wages etc might have to be paid. In other cases, particularly with loans from English or larger Scottish clubs, the commitment might be less as there is an advantage to the loaning club in the player getting game time. With players being loaned out from DAFC we now insist upon it being a season-long loan with a recall option in January, to ensure the player is not “returned”, as he could not then be re-loaned to another club due to the 2-club rule.

Q12 Has consideration been given to foreign markets for player recruitment?

A12 Foreign markets would be very difficult as you must have people on site you can depend on, and there are sometimes issues with agencies we don’t know or with “third-party ownership” of player contracts. The Board is looking to widen the scope of recruitment in the UK, particularly in England, using EEP’s excellent facilities and the “expectation” of our club to “sell” DAFC to potential recruits, as we are effectively competing with other Championship clubs as a springboard to the Scottish Premiership or England.

Q13 What does the new TV deal mean to DAFC?

A13 The total revenue to Scottish football may be greater, but effectively it means the reward gap between the Premiership and the rest becomes wider. Also, with Championship TV on BBC2 moving two games from a Saturday to a Friday night affects attendance, atmosphere, hospitality and other matchday revenues, particularly as it’s likely that these games will be the more attractive ones. It becomes even more important to secure a good run in the Scottish Cup, as the TV revenue arrangements there have been (correctly) changed to benefit progress rather than an early exit to a “big” team.

Q14 What benefit will DAFC get from hosting the UEFA Women’s international matches?
A14 Perhaps less than we had hoped. Disappointingly, the SFA and UEFA are reconsidering the need for improved floodlights and electronic scoreboard – this is still under consideration.

Q15 What is happening with the proposed “5th league”?

A15 Ross McArthur is on the SPFL’s Competition Working Group who are looking at this. This was meant to be confidential, but someone leaked this to the Evening Express in Aberdeen. His concern at present would be that a fifth tier needs to be funded, which could result in less money for second tier clubs in the Championship, particularly if it is a device to get the big clubs’ Colt teams into the league structure, although it does open up the pyramid for Highland and Lowland League Teams like Kelty Hearts.
 Q16 Would DAFC benefit by having professional Sales / Commercial Manager(s)? If this isn’t economically viable, could a form of apprenticeship be used?
A16 Possibly if DAFC were in the Premiership it would make sense to upscale the present staff numbers, but at present it’s difficult to justify recruiting someone on a permanent basis, as their salaries and overheads in additional revenue would have to be recovered just to break even. Cover would also be needed for holidays, illness etc. There have been trials using third parties on a retainer or commission basis, but they didn’t prove economically viable. There is quite a small potential market for a provincial club, and there are already close relationships with many local businesses. The one major area for potential new revenue would be the naming rights for the stadium, which we are always looking to do.

Q17 What can the club do about the (increasing) level of personal abuse directed at players and staff?

A17 It is a passionate game and feelings run high, especially when results are not going for you are everyone gets frustrated, but some behaviour we have witnessed is totally unacceptable. I was very close to issuing a Statement a few weeks ago, but I was talked out of it. As well as abuse towards the players and the manager, there has been verbal abuse of a ballboy and members of staff & volunteers who assist the club, damage to Legends, a window kicked in at reception and more disturbing was an offensive video message sent to a player’s account during a match. The behaviour has been disgusting. Being honest, at times I think to myself is it worth it, when some vile people undermine the good efforts of others. However, it is a minority of people. If the player’s family had not deleted the video it would have been a police matter. This all has an effect, not only on the people in receipt of the abuse, but also on those who witness it. I have had numerous letters from proper supporters who are appalled at the behaviour of others. In addition, it affects potential sponsors or new fans, who do not want to be associated with a club where that behaviour is tolerated. DAFC has a duty of care towards its employees and will work with stewards and police as necessary to identify the individuals concerned and root it out.
Q18 Given the low turn-out at the meeting, would a Facebook forum Q&A session be more useful?
A18 Possibly, although it would require a considerable amount of resource to monitor it and ensure that “official” answers were given.

Governance & Vision (Hosts: Donald Adamson & William Braisby)

There were few questions but the hosts took time to explain in some detail how the club was structured and how the various entities inter-link to support each other and to protect the long term future of the club.
 
One supporter raised a question about what would happen if, say, a large supermarket offered to purchase the ground.  The hosts explained that the company articles are written in such a way that any money raised from the sale MUST, firstly, be used to purchase land and to build a new ground for DAFC use. It would not be possible for an individual or group of shareholders to extract money back out of the property company.
 
Another supporter asked about the vision. Briefly this is to keep the club profitable, keep it in control of the fans, seek promotion to the Premiership on a sensible and firm basis, and do well in cup competitions.  In the longer term, the club might wish to invest in a training ground

Finance (Hosts: Ian Hunter & David McMorrine)

Q1 Does the youth programme cost a lot of money?

A1 The annual costs of FEFA are approx. £300k. There is a contribution from SFA depending on each academy’s status – but moving up a level necessitates spending a lot of money. DAFC contribute 45% of FEFA costs, and we picked up 6 or 7 players.

Q2 How is CC Lifeline money allocated?

A2 the CCL money is not allocated to any specific expenditure - it goes into the general pot.

Q3 How does DAFC budget compare with that of other clubs?

A3 It’s never easy to be able to gauge other clubs’ budgets with any degree of accuracy. We’re far behind Partick Thistle, Dundee United and Ross County, who have either or both of: parachute payments on dropping out of Premiership and wealthy individuals as backers.

Q4 What is the biggest stadium expense?

A4 Generally anything to do with safety. Right now, electrical items are proving to be costly. The bad weather in the winter gave rise to unexpected costs due to flood damage.

Q5 Is there no insurance to cover player operations?

A5 Premiums are too high - in an average season we might have 2 operations, but this season we have had 7 already, costing £30k.

Other areas discussed:
- Where is the CC Lifeline donation shown in the club’s accounts?
It is treated as a negative expense.

- Is there scope for expanding the CC Lifeline membership?
- New membership campaign to be launched soon.

- Will DAFC get much from the new Sky TV deal?
- No.

- Is money invested into the stadium?
- DAFC incurs costs of repairing, keeping watertight etc.

Matchday Experience (Hosts: Billy Braisby & Bob Garmory)

Q1 Beer prices and quality?

A1 Quantities are low and this impacts on the price, the club are tied to Carling. Others remarked that the price was reasonable compared to the town. The pipes are cleaned after each use.

Q2 Legends open during the week?

A2 Two or three people would be in the Paragon when it was open during the week, this isn’t financially viable. Sky TV costs £8,000 a year which is too expensive when the bar is only open 18 times a season. Staff costs also mean it’s difficult to open on non-match days. 

Q3 PA quality in the main stand is poor

A3 Billy agreed that it was difficult to hear in the main stand although match delegates from the SPFL have marked it as “Excellent”. To fix the system would cost over £36,000 and money would be better invested in other areas currently.

Q4 Roof leaks in the main stand.

A4 Bob said that the work on the roof was ongoing in the North West and East stand and the Main Stand and that all the work in the Norrie and East stand had been completed and the roofs fixed. Main Stand guttering leaking was fixed and then sprang another leak which will be looked into tomorrow 23rd Nov. Replacing the whole guttering would cost large sums of money and the club have to prioritise spending on a stadium which had no maintenance for 20 years.

Q5 Pigeons are making a mess.

A5 The club are awaiting a licence for the groundsmen to have an air rifle to cull the birds as they are a menace for keeping the ground tidy and also can carry disease.

Q6 Better coffee from the Stephens stalls?

A6 Billy will raise this with Stephens although they are great in staffing the outlets they are difficult to get into a meeting to feedback regarding quality and choice. Billy will go back and try to secure a meeting with Stephens to raise the quality of the coffee. It was noted that the food was reckoned to be of good quality by the supporters.

Q7 Toilets have no hand towels.

A7 The groundsmen do a check of the ground before the matchday and it will be raised with them to ensure that the towel holders are full before the match.

Q8 Legends is not a good atmosphere before the match, could membership be an option?

A8 Membership wasn’t as popular as it seemed at the tail end of the Paragon club and habits have changed pubs and finding times tough at the moment. Sports should be on the TV before the match if rugby or football in on the BBC/ ITV. Old Dunfermline games being repeated on the big screens will be looked into. Brian Duncan said that all the equipment is ready to use and Billy will look into having a few guys man the laptop and choose the game.

Q9 Bookmakers in house?

A9 The club have asked if any bookmakers wanted to take on the shop in the stand although it was felt that as there wasn’t a place that all fans could access that this had put bookies off going in and all had turned down the offer. Mobile betting is taking away the need for a bookies shop in the ground.

Q10 Fans taking part in the cross bar challenge or penalty shootout?

A11 Pars Foundation use the pitch most half times. The club will look at having 2/3 matches a season when they could let fans enter a half time draw to take part in some kind of competition on the pitch. It’s an area where we need volunteers to help organise.

Q12 Stream old Dunfermline matches?

A12 Brian Duncan confirmed that Pars TV had the equipment to replay old matches in Legends before or after the math and will work with the club to set this up.

Q13 could screens with a live feed from the game be shown in the pie queues?
A13 TV screens will be installed for advertising purposes with the club getting a 1/3 share of the screen for club advertising - Majority of income goes to outside agency. Once this installation work has been completed the club will work with Pars TV to see if other screens could be fitted in the concourse to show a live feed of the game.

Q14 Could EEP have a restaurant in the club serving meals 7 days a week?

A14 Bar lunches aren’t as popular and more and past attempts to open the club as a restaurant in the past haven’t been successful. Similar problems to opening Legends 7 days - the staffing costs would be huge for almost no return.

Q15 Could there be an SPFL broadcasting channel?

A15 Brian Duncan confirmed that almost all teams in the Championship have the facilities to broadcast their games Billy will feed this back to the Championship group however a new TV deal has just been struck and it’s unlikely there will be any movement any time soon.

Q16 How are the club preparing for more Friday night games?

A16 From next season the club will have 2 games on a Friday night, the club will seek as much advance notice as possible from the SPFL. The club will also work on ways to try and retain supporters after the match in the stadium bars to maximise revenue.

Q17 The police are directing traffic up Garvock Hill which is causing heavy congestion and fans are having problems with drivers driving through the crowds after the match.

A17 The Board thought that the traffic was stopped and not directed up Garvock Hill, and although this is a police decision it will be raised with Police Scotland. The Board were aware of an incident after the Dundee United game when a supporter was nearly knocked down and this has been dealt with by the police. People parking directly outside the ground and driving through the crowd will be raised with the police to see what can be done to restrict parking.

Q18 Stewarding?

A18 G4S provide the club with stewards and are able to quickly react to large events at short notice such as the play-off games. They are also keeping the same stewards in the same places each week to build a rapport with the supporters and reduce incidents. So far this season there have been no complaints against the stewards.

Q19 Will the club introduce mobile ticketing?

A19 The club was offered piloting mobile tickets this season however after last season’s difficulties the club decided to wait until St Mirren and Morton’s pilots are finished as Morton have had some major teething issues again this season. InterStadia have the online ticket contract for the next 12/18 months and the club will reassess which supplier best fits the needs of the club at the end of this time.

Q20 Is Kids’ Hospitality a possibility?

A20 The Board have a Sammy’s Day planned and will invite kids and their parents along for a lunch with Sammy the Tammy and then go to the game afterwards. Date is still TBC.

Q21 What is the Boards main priority?

A21 Improve the atmosphere in Legends which will be difficult. However, looking into pre and most match entertainment looks like a good starting place and the Board are always open to new ideas.

Supporter Involvement (Hosts: Karyn Forrester & Gordon Milne)

We covered a broad range of subjects in our discussions, with a recurring theme of why were there not more fans at the meeting?
It was felt that the Club has become heavily dependent on social media for promotion, but the wide demographic of fans means this is not always the best route. Suggest polling season ticket holders for best form of communication at renewal. Also, do not underestimate the power of notices and announcements on match days.

General agreement that the official site is the main point of reference for fans, and although most fans still read .net, very few post and it is not regarded as representative of fan opinions
Day and time of Council meetings may not be appropriate – many fans stay out of Dunfermline or commute to Edinburgh. Try weekend meetings, perhaps linked to games or an online “virtual” meeting?

How can we connect with younger fans (teenagers to young adults)? Perhaps the most difficult age to maintain loyalty, but also key to long term support. Other clubs give free tickets to community police who issue them at their discretion.

Other comments:
Legends has become poor – rubbish beer, no football on the TV and lots of kids
DA is one of the best clubs in Scotland for fan engagement
Generally, a better mood amongst fans since it became a community club

The meeting closed at 9pm, with thanks to everyone who had taken part.

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